VIEW #1
All good. Good relationship with husband, do a lot with him and look forward to doing more after last kid is gone. Raised kids to be independent.
INTERVIEW #2
Lost the file with these notes. She’s in the middle of it all right now. Has angst about it. Talks to friends.
INTERVIEW #3
The child that’s going off to school now is the one who needs the most support. She’s completely unprepared for life. It’s catching me by surprise how unprepared she is. My biggest challenge is stepping away, leaving her be, letting her figure it out without becoming anxious about her and her path. to shut up and not say anything which is really hard bc she’s the youngest. completing sentences for her, talking to her like she’s a 2 year old. I can see it and it’s so hard for me not to do it. watching her not get something really big. I’m codependent b/c I’m having a hard time detaching from her getting to school.
#3. I’m excited for my kid. I’m all into my kids right now. my attention is all on my kids. Annamarie, going to visit her at her residency. watching Elizabeth perform at Boise. continuation of how I live my life. ability to go and hang out with my children. as I want to. as I need to. and, from a distance. not too in their space. hotel room hang out, check out where she’s living, take her out to eat, do an exercise class. I’ve put a lot of time into myself and being excited. I’m excited to have time to exercise, but I've done this for the last 10 years. I'm still excited about my exercise routine. I’m going to be a swiftie for a day—taylor swift workout. think I'll wear a tutu. daily excitements more than big things. uninterrupted time to write and not be distracted. lizzie would need me to pick her up from school. I’d be writing and then it was time to pick her up. I'd be rushing to get her. I’m excited about that. I'm excited to maybe brush up on a foreign language, there’s a possibility of us getting a place in Italy. I don’t know how excited I am about that but it’s something I would enjoy doing. As far as personal development goes, the word exciting is tripping me up. I do it every day. It’s a habit I do.
6. at this moment I would say I am less clear. this week, this day. Passion word trips me up. life purpose: I really feel 100%, forget about all the work in world part. The thing that has made me feel most centered about my life purpose has been the community of family. the family part. My purpose has been to be the person that makes the family work. I don’t know if it’s the supporter, left thumb life purpose, family/community. I have felt very I wouldn’t’ say passionate, but it’s a passionate knowing it’s what I’m here to do right now. not super excited, or get off on it, but this is what I'm here to do right now. If I have uncertainty, it’s always going to run in the background, I can’t take myself away from that and I don’t know that I want to if I give myself permission for this. I wanted out of it for so long, let me out of these family things. let me become a coach so I have something to escape from. I really am passionate about coaching; it does get me excited. but there’s like this family thing I’m currently aware that is writhing in the background all the time. I kept thinking this was all going to shift when lizzie goes to school in august. we’ll see what august has, until she gets there my focus and my energy and certainty about my life purpose is to set my children up for success. and I really believe in my heart of hearts that’s what my job is for anybody I come into contact with. That’s pretty much my purpose is to help set people up for success. It’s emotional, it’s the energy of success, not the outcomes. Even though I can help somebody make a lot of money, you have to be able to emotionally handle not having any in order to grow that much. have to be emotionally stable. Being emotionally stable is absolutely a part of this. currently I feel I have failed my daughter so big with Elizabeth because she is not emotionally stable in certain crowds and situations. and I know I’m not the person to help her with that. I've always known, I can see what they need help with, and I don’t have to be the person to help them. maybe I’ve been a little bit too something. not demanding that she rise above her emotional. I've been a little too soft with her. I want to smack her, but I’m not going to hurt her feelings. And most of this is because of how I feel, that she is not completely, she is not doing her part to set herself up for success. That's part of it. I’m able to emotionally deal with the fact that she’s not ready. and I'm going to have to trust that she’s going to be fine and pray that she will be safe. Emotionally stable is success.
What happens because of this phone call?
I feel good. A little bit. seeing myself in your niche. thinking about It today. brought some space to explore—what do I really want to do? even though I feel I’ve had an understanding of what I’ll do work-wise, I've thought about it but haven’t really pinned it down. What do I actually really want to commit to doing? Do I really WANT to learn a foreign language? is that true?
INTERVIEW #4
Most friends are empty nesters
Could be moms at any stage. 22, 19, 17, 13, 12, 8
Kindergarten and the start of high school are parenting milestones. They’re still in my nest, now they’re not. parenting business. Two pivotal moments. get triggered the same way as a mother. different emotions. fathers also experience some emotions but it’s a major transition. Are they going to be ok? are they going to be safe? are they going to thrive? high school defines them.
What about me? when I had the last at 45. dear Jesus. 5th was starting kindergarten. finally get a breather. finally get to do me. The whole reason I started my own biz was I can’t do this. I can’t parent and....
latchkey kid, divorced parents, no fairytale childhood. I'm going to be home and present and take them to school. That was my goal. I left my corporate job to do that, to raise my kids. when #5 was in kindergarten—OK! I can focus on me. self-care days. get yourself back for those couple hours. You have time for you after all these years. and then I got pregnant. went down the rabbit hole. took me out. Was not happy. I love her she’s an angel, biggest source of joy in the entire family but those first couple of years I was not happy. This was supposed to be my time. I got to get back to me as a mother. When do I get back to me? And the things I want to do? to accomplish the things I want to accomplish? It hit me 2 years in. need my downtime. Girlfriends--let's go to lady gaga? no, it’s going to be on my terms. I need my alone time, down time at night. It’s too much for everyone else. I don’t even know who I am anymore. Everybody needs a piece of you. had to recalibrate. all about doing things that bring me joy. very short bandwidth.
Support: isolating. Find my way. Not a lot of support. figuring out how to get what I needed by diving into those things. Courses, connecting with other experts, reading books, journaling, mindset work, selfcare, etc. plus I was an older mom, so I was an anomaly. it would have been nice to know about resources but have to search for it.
High school is a triggering point because it’s a time ticker. omg all of a sudden, I'm on a timeline. What am I doing to do with myself? what am I going to do? how do you get your mind off that pathway? because as mothers we feel that’s selfish to do that.
You are worthy of thinking of yourself. it’s ok you have permission.
In motherhood and parenting space with her coaching work. “you only have until they’re 18!” finality once they turn 18. Reality is it never ends. even nieces and nephews. see how present you still are as they are adults. Who am I now? if I'm defined by raising children, now who am I/ even if still married. panic.
Permission is the key word. change from direct, daily motherhood. all these things that are bottled up and not talked about. As soon as I bring it up it’s all going to come out. They’re not really talking about it. in a clique or isolated unless have friends in the same situation.
Motherhood niche. women who are mothers. underlying emotions of anxiety and stress. need to know how to work through fear of unknown? Am I really being selfish? I think it will translate over to the new group. I’m still doing the same thing. I know the ropes because I’ve experienced it.
Family? Neighbors? friends? Who do I know that I can chat with?
Watch for specific language to use for this. watch for messaging to shift.
INTERVIEW #5
You’re never done being a mom. They circle back over and over again. Some parents check out after graduation and don’t care to have a relationship. That’s not me. I remember when Lindsey started high school, I made a conscious decision, and we talked about it as a family at that point, to step back and give her more freedom. I was still there if she needed me but I wasn’t volunteering in the classroom or anything like that.
INTERVIEW #6
Travelling. Married young, at 23, kid at 24. Now it’s time for me. Nevery had that time for myself when I was younger. I’ve never been a helicopter mom. I was involved, at all their things, but this is their lves. Iw as really good at having my own life separate from myt kids. Going on girls trips, my husband and I have always dated.
My model of past, present, future. Sacred cycles. Mother maiden queen crone. Mother wounds. Take them and tweak them toward what I’m doing. My mom holds a grudge, is super judgy, I was determined not to do that. And there are amazing parts of her I love. Mourning and celebrating, it’s that season. Memorializing. I need to do something for me to memorialize that. Last kid out of the house. I’ve never slowed down enough to do that. Grieve it. Celebrate it. We’re more hard on ourselves as moms.
This is so needed. So much healing needs to happen. Why did you not take care of your marriage or yourself? Why did you put everything into your kids? What were you trying to fulfill?
Pushing boundaries, testing new methodologies, breaking th mold has a lot of takes a lto of energy. To make conscious change is the hope fo the world.
Got married for a reason,. Look at shadows.. what are they hiding? Maybe they’re the good mom because they’re suppressing the devilish mom.
INTERVIEW #7
When in high school noticed pretty quickly they feel more grown up. All different from each other. Well prepared for oldest to leave, she didn’t need much, very independent. Second one I was much closer to her, more stay at home, went to Portland for college, more verbal about her attachment to us as a family, always wanting reassurance and attachment. All very driven, overachievers, perfectionists. I knew I was going to miss her going she was a sound board for me as well, more like a friend or a sister of hers. I don’t have a sister. Still close. Jenna the oldest didn’t have such a need for that. She was in upstate New York much further away. Both became independent the minute they left home. Mark was keen they didn’t come home and boomerang. Lucy was different, much more social. Going out a lot with friends. Weird hours. Youngest gets a longer leash, especially once they learn to drive. Very chatty, extremely. She wants to speak everything that comes into her mind as it comes. I missed her going because she was a noise presence, always something going on when she was here. I knew I would miss that when she went away. East coast pretty far. Unlike Jenna she would always call right away if she needed help. We must have done a good job with them. They all went off and were independent. Mark always treated them with respect. we trust you until you do something that breaks that trust.
Being a rebel myself as a teenager I was always waiting for something to happen. They were just so well behaved. It’s different in England with public transport.
Biggest frustration or challenge? Maybe I didn’t know what was going on! Kelly told me all that was going on, Jenna didn’t. I didn’t have that kind of relationship with my mom so I was glad I had that with at least Kelly and Lucy, Jenna to some extent. Worked at CTE, still do. Always thought I would get a job after they left. Tried for a couple and didn’t it’s fine I’ll just play tennis I’m over it now but at 45-50 with perimenopause everything feels a little bleak. All those hormonal changes. Don’t handle things the same.
Opposites with my mom. They are open and honest with me. I was lying about where I was going. My parents then didn’t’ think they needed to emotionally tell kids what was going on with their lives. Everything was behind closed doors.
Culturally. My mom was a teacher, they saw us as kids, always and still to this day. I see my kids as adults. I was on a career path until I left to come over here. They put a lot into status. My brother didn’t like being around other people that much. Work didn’t go well for him. Still lots of things, never really enjoyed it. They were disappointed in him. Having parents who are academics, a degree doesn’t solve all your problems
So when I was an empty nester nothing changed. I kept in touch, visited them, skyped with them. Still worked at CTE, still played tennis, didn’t have to get up super early in the morning to get them to high school. Initially I worried, I didn’t really know, it was a small worry. These days kids check in via text. You can always reach them.
Now as a mom: they give a lot back, they come home, got it right, pretty fulfilled. That’s my main job. In the back of my mind, I thought I’d get a main job, a career. Then chose not to work when they were babies because I didn’t need to.
What would I do differently? I regret going from my degree into a post-grad secretarial thing. It pigeonholed me into admin world. If I’d been more risk-tolerant I would have taken any job and kept looking around, more career-like. Did a 4-year degree in German and French. Not a manager. I came over here because mark came over here.
INTERVIEW #8
Someone said to me about feelings of rejection as a mom. Even though we might not be thinking about the empty nest because of the rejection that teenagers throw at us sometimes. You’re just old, you can’t relate. Independence but also shut us out which leads to the feeling of empty nest.
Biggest challenges include the amount of social media that teens can access. It gives kids unreal expectations from watching a Disney show and thinking that’s what my bedroom should look like from a 8-9 year old. Creates an expectation. Then you’re too old, you don’t know what it’s like to be a teen today. You’re too strict, your rules aren’t reasonable. Perceptions through social media lead them to believe it’s a reality that isn’t true. Many ways our children have been harmed.
I’m afraid for my children because of it. Access pornography, drugs, unreal expectations of life.
Resources around that fear? Where I am heading is good. What can we do to create a course or support system for parents? Kids are sharing info all the time, parents aren’t. covid took a lot away from that too. No meetings, no group interactions.
Isolation—I’ve created a lot of isolation in my life. Covid created a lot of isolation also.
Example: solutions: you just need to change your modem! Ideal business: bring me all your devices and I’ll set them up for you for privacy. We did that and then they can get Instagram on tv. What?? There’s no clearing house or support for parents to get this information unless you have the time to be a sleuth 8 hours a day like they do. Worksheet, point by point, this is what to do if you’re having a problem with kids on social media.
Challenges about empty nest time? I’ve been parenting for so long I don’t fit the mold. I love rosa being exactly where she’s at. I don’t believe I’ll have a problem because I’m already juggling how to have time with grandchildren. Or have the other kids with us. I don’t think I’m going to have those EN feelings that some people have. Cuz I want something else right now, except for rosa. Never felt like I can’t wait
What would you like your life to look like once rosa has moved out? I don’t think it will look much different than now. I would like to be physically active. I still want an RV. Whether I’ll be able to drive it or not then! I’d like my life to be family focused. That my children will have been fully launched with a base for success. I can have that now for my older kids. But what about you?? Hiking regularly. In a hiking group. A lot of travel. In my mind that’s visiting children but not exclusive to that at all. Very important. Some kind of a craft or creative outlet—sewing, pottery, I did a little bit of that in high school. Community I volunteer in, useful and a part of. Even if live 6 months in Arizona and 6 in Olympia, community connected. What does volunteering bring? Purpose, part of community, giving back which is really important to me. Watching my parents age, my mom did a lot of volunteering earlier and didn’t keep it up. It keeps our minds active and we don’t age as much.
What role has your identity as a mother played in your life? My mother played a very large role. Father worked a lot, gone 24 hours + at a time. She did a lot of parenting with us. She wasn’t super structured thus I don’t have a lot of structure. My structure was more created by my job and calendar, not how I was raised. I was jealous. My friend’s mother had a grocery list, and her mother went shopping every Thursday. Another did chores every Saturday morning. But my mother was very independent. I was amazed, she would load us into the car and do errands. She had all of us in the car and parallel parked, I have no idea how she did that every day. She suffered through some addictions, terribly with a gambling addiction which led to a lot of abandonment as a kid but she was at every sporting event, took stats, etc. If she was gone we knew where she was. We would call and they would lie, she told them to lie. Tree burning down in field! As I’ve gotten older, in the past year or two I’ve had a lot of awakenings about that. If mom could do It, why can’t I check out? We still love her and we are all devoted to her. We got through it, it’s just a period of time. I had a lot of aggression, that’s not the right word, negative feelings. I can see myself doing some of that same behavior. If it was okay for my mom, and we all got through it…. Same reasons I’ve been unhappy in my life. Her coping mechanisms weren’t always real good.
Haven’t been drinking, some AA meetings. Doing well.
INTERVIEW #9
Mason went to Whitworth. I had a great childhood. My parents were always at my sports. I don’t remember anything bad about my childhood. We supported our kids, we were at all their events. Some parents don’t do any of that.
When Carson talked about going to California for college that was hard. It wasn’t a drive. Scary. He was in football. We’d try to go down as much as we could. I could only go 2-3 months without seeing my kids. Once I had it in my mind, at least I get a fun place to visit. Then you see how they’re excited and you support them.
Mason came to Whitworth and I thought I could jump in a car. PLU and UPS were too close to home, they wanted to go out. I knew they were ready. It’s still hard when there is nobody home. I started wrapping myself around that, this is great, I love this! I don’t have all this responsibility anymore. All this freedom. They were happy. I love this. I would always love to go see them or them come home. And now we live over here. Just a couple weeks ago he said he was going to move to Phoenix. Dominic his friend lives there and needs a roommate. He wanted to get out of Washington. I wasn’t crazy about the idea. He was flying down to Phoenix for the interview. Didn’t get the job. He was crushed but got the Spokane job offer. So, living with us for at least a year. I have to get used to him living with us again. I never thought my kids would come back. Now I have more responsibility again but he comes and goes as he pleases. It’s kind of a roller coaster. Happy for them, sad when they leave, happy to see them.
Proud of? Always there for my kids. A lot of parents aren’t. when mason had one football game and we couldn’t go because of the snow, he was devastated we couldn’t’ be there. He sent us a text—ii know you’ve been to every game. Sweetest text he sent us. It’s weird to not have you there.
Any friends you noticed do it differently? Maybe one of Mason’s friends who lived with us for a while. One of Carson’s friends said you’re on your own once you turn 18. These kids—he lived with us for a couple months. Dad kicked him out of the house at 18. He was going to SSCC, he was working. What else can you ask a graduating senior to do? I felt really bad for him.
Carson—we still pay for gas and phone. He pays for groceries and rent. Things are expensive. We paid Mason’s rent in college. Some of his roommates had to pay for their own rent and food. One of his roommates wouldn’t eat, he said he couldn’t have dinner, no money, so Mason gave him some chicken. He saw what other kids were going through, realized how privileged he is. I’m really lucky my parents can back me up.
Your own mother? My mom’s parents, grandpa was a flight attendant. Mom stayed home with 4 kids. Grandpa had affairs, grandma drank wine with friends, so my mom raised her littlest brother. I haven’t thought about it.
I wanted to be involved in everything. With Mason coming home I have to remind myself to back off. I don’t need to have dinner ready for him every night. He’s been on his own for 4 years, I don’t want to bother him. Yesterday he asked me to do his laundry. I was home all day. I don’t need to go down in his room to get his laundry. I give him his space coming back home and respect that.
Best part of them being gone? House stays clean, food is there when you buy it. House is going to stay exactly how I left it. When he came home, I want dishes done, things picked up. I don’t want to come home to a messy house. Be respectful. This is not your frat house. 9 guys and filthy dirty. He’s recruiting nurses for in-home health care, he’ll be gone 11 hours a day. He doesn’t have to worry about grocery shopping or making your meals. All you have to worry about is work and working out. Don’t have to do all the household chores as if you had your own place.
Carson’s girlfriend just graduated, they live in Renton. He’s been out twice to visit. He texted yesterday and said hey I want to come over. We bought this house on Long Lake on Spokane River so the kids would visit. He loves it over here and doesn’t want to leave. Brian is still working online commutes to olympia a couple times a month. Life was getting boring in Olympia. Wanted something new. It was a crazy thing we did, it’s been the best decision ever. There’s no rain here, it’s like a mist. Rain here is a joke. I’m working at a school, here, we had indoor recess because it was sprinkling. Work 10-2:30 with 4-5 graders in the resource room, with IEP’s. Carson was sad we sold the cabin. We are on a lake why would we ever go back to Shelton?
INTERVIEW #10
It seems very final. End of an era. Transition form everyday hands on mothering to more of a guidance and hoping that they will listen. Just suggesting rather than you need to do this.
This is the last start of volleyball season. Last summer league. The last of all of these things. A little bit of relief. Am I going to miss this? Everyday hands on parenting has been a huge part of my everyday life. Ok what am I going to fill this with? Am I going to be ok with this outside looking in?
Weirdest dreams that I keep having more kids. No thank you but also wow. Trying to cherish all those moments of being younger.
What will be the most different for you? Having them leave the house. I still have constant communication with them but they’re not a presence here. The quiet, the solitude, that is sometimes uncomfortable. They bring energy and vibrancy to life.
Same/different? My parents were very good at letting me make my choices. Being supportive but not meddling for lack of a better word. So when I see situations where prior I would have given a lot of guidance I’m more like XXXXX
Different? There’s nothing that really stuck out necessarily. Other than when my kids tells me something upsetting or shocking, I try not to have a reaction right then and there because I want them to say things to me. I wasn’t comfortable sharing. (with my parents).
How prepared are you? Not at all. Explore what my next steps will be, what do you think that’s going to be like for you? I’ll focus more on education opportunities and service.
Support? Women’s group going through same things, same experiences would be nice. My friends are all in different stages. Sometimes it’s hard for them to understand or comprehend. Most are behind me. Not looking ahead. In those moments it feels like it’ll be so nice.
Am I too early? Good question! I’ve had 4 daughters. First one was really hard, don’t know what to expect. But then she left, I’m caught up with the other ones. Not too early. Walk them through the first one and what that’s like, then eventually transitioning into the complete empty nester. If I knew something like that was available, I might have reached out. Because it’s one of those things that you kind of endure in silence.
How would you like this transition to feel/be? Sentimental feelings, a lot of them. A sliver of relief to not be so crazy busy all the time. Also that longing to be that age when they were smaller, closer. But also kind of trepidation about the future. More now than when younger? Probably because it’s more of a reality now. Hard to imagine with all the diapers and craziness.
What would it take to reach out to a coach 1:1? It would be something I was aware of. Also a description of what it is. I’m very hesitant with things where I feel I’m going in whining, everybody is whining. So more empowering and positive.
Rooted in how we were parented? Choices we see our children making and we see if I’d done this, then… the what if’s. Are they making this choice because I did this or I did not do this?
INTERVIEW #11
How much bandwidth is this taking up for you now? Macy is a junior next year, Kaylin a senior. Doesn’t preoccupy more than it used to.
What’s going to be hard about that? I can already feel the emotional part of that, not knowing, that constant check in to see them and know they’re fine. She’s never left for very long. We’ve hopefully done a decent job. Not seeing her often anymore.
Anything hard now? I don’t think so. Starting to think about colleges and where they want to go. They feel this immense pressure since high school to get all A’s, to participate, to set a high standard. Perfection is not what you’re going for. Pressure is incredible for kids now.
Differently/same? My mom in particular, she was always supportive no matter what. I could call her and she would help me. I hope I carried that through with my daughters. Also my mom was a very practical person as well, there’s nothing we can’t figure out, this too shall pass. She was always a very calming person, didn’t get too riled up about anything. That was a comfort. I tell both my girls the same thing. When they leave and go to college, how much will they reach out to me vs. being independent? Mom led by example.
Different: she’s more of a (hospital job) she saw more of the bad. If there’s a worst case scenario let’s prepare for that, I try to be more positive. As my mom has aged it’s becoming more prevalent in her thinking. She saw a lot of crisis and trauma, results of drinking and driving, etc. what about something good might happen?
100% successful? Anything change? I’m not sure how to answer that. I probably invest too much in my kids. I should let them fail more vs. help them too much. Forget something at home, I’ll bring it to school for them. Hope I don’t make them too dependent. I worry sometimes I’m not strict enough with them. I’m very firm with my expectations as in being respectful but if they ask me something I usually tell them yes. I feel they’ve earned it.
How would you like to see yourself move through these next two years? It’s nice to think of doing things I want to do again. I’d love to golf again. Spend more time doing something I enjoy, that’s outdoors. Travel more. Not confined to a certain schedule. Huge transition next couple of years. Support them, visit them, and also invest more time in myself. As a mom we rarely put our needs first. Get back to that a bit more.
Biggest issue once Macy leaves home? Figuring out for Sean and I, for last 18 years we’ve focused everything on our kids, to change that thinking back to the two of us. Figuring out what we enjoy without our kids. It will be interesting to have this different relationship and how we live together the two of us. When they come back, then focus on them again! Different relationships on and off over next few years.
Heard it’s really hard at first but it’s great now.
What kinds of things do you imagine would be supportive of you? Good friend group, all going through this the same time. As a group would be supportive of me. Like golf once a week in the summer, with other couples. Book club with friends, get together and be more focused, not just hanging out and having drinks or dinner but more constructive. Organized things, makes me more accountable to do it. Sign up and pay for something per week then I’ll do it. Something to look forward to.
Have you ever worked with a coach before? No
Imagine it? Possibly. My coworkers are all mental health counselors.
What would be attractive for coaching? If I wasn’t processing. Getting stuck, couldn’t move past, or do things for myself.
GRADE: B. A is pretty outstanding. I do a good job overall, could always improve somewhere.
Anything else? My whole life has been focused on these kids. I know like you said it doesn’t end when they go to college. I can’t imagine what I did when I didn’t have them. Interesting and strange.
Women who do not work outside the home—that would be interesting. If I hadn’t gone back to work and stayed home with the kids. I have a couple of friends who have never worked. Research for stay at homes and how that’s different.
INTERVIEW #12
Each kid is different. They’ve all stayed local, eastern Washington for college, all live around here now. Really fortunate. Ellies husband’s family sold their house when he graduated from college. Sold the house, when we have Christmas one is on a blow up mattress in the office. Really? That’s traumatic for the kids.
What was hard for you? I love my daughter, tumultuous relationship over the years, I heard later she would hear her friends over the phone talking to their moms. I left it too much in her court to call me. She may have felt a little abandoned. You knew my parents, it was: OK, see ya! I had a really hard quarter at UW and had to drop out for the quarter, called my mom, and she said ok but you can sill live in the sorority right? It’ll be fine, don’t worry about it. That was my background. Not exactly the helicopter parent. It was hard figuring out how to make them feel included but still have your own life. The boys were still at home when Ellie left, etc. focused more on younger ones which they could’ve done without. Alex—oh! What are you doing? You get close to the younger ones. It was all lip service. Less contentious. Hardest part is I was a stay-at-home mom, did PTA, part time stuff when they were little. Never really worked because Peter travelled all the time. I was on the hook for 3 kids. I wish I’d kept up on something. Did do part time for years, not mentally stimulating. So what do I want to do, who am I? It was a trickle, Ellie graduated from high school in 2012, dad died in 2012. She struggled with depression in high school, pretty tumultuous senior year. I was the one taking him to his appointments, driving mom, lots of caregiving. He died Ellie’s senior year, mom had to sell the house, macular degeneration so couldn’t live by herself. Transitioned into being main caregiver for mom. Got her into Merrill gardens. She couldn’t drive. I’d see her, spend time with her, bring her back to my place, for 3 years. Remodeled our house in 2013 when Ellie took a break from school, and came back home. Mom died in 2015 and by that time Ellie was a sophomore, John was a freshman at Whitman, just Alex me and my mom. Then mom died and Alex had junior and senior year then graduated and went to UW. By that time Peter’s mom Jan was failing. We needed to get her out of the house and into Merrill Gardens. And then my sister has Parkinson’s and cancer so transitioned into caregiving for Karen and Jan. Then covid in the middle of that, and Alex moved home for a semester. I’ve never really had an empty nest. John travelled during the summers. Ellie hasn’t been at home either. A trickle. Went from managing teenagers to managing parents. Dealing with puberty for 11 years straight! Puberty to dementia. Peter and I were both on the same page. I always wanted to be a stay at home mom, never had any big career goals, WTA was my big thing. Nothing that was my bread and butter or reason for getting up in the morning. Maybe I should have had a thing. Caregiver now. Really good relationships with my kids. Ellie and Ian just bought a house at Green Lake, John is at Wallingford, Alex was going to move to Port Townsend but that fell through, lease with a girlfriend, so they’re going to be moving in together locally.
Wish I knew more day-to-day what was going on. Hard figuring out that line. How involved should I be? I’m less involved than I’d like to be but know. Ellie has always been a struggle, she’s super busy. Build it up in my head and no she’s just super busy. In absence of info, I go down rabbit hole.
Body shaming. Mom. My mom never wanted us to get a big head. Never just a compliment. I don’t know what that was for my mom. Peter’s mom was the opposite. Isn’t it too bad the rest of the world doesn’t have red hair? Peter said “My mom made us feel we were the luckiest kids on the earth.” They had baggage but self-confidence wasn’t’ one of them. But the porter kids struggled to have any semblance of self-esteem. I thought I’d do a way better job, then I have a girl who starts developing at age 12. Me too movement, it’s really hard when she’s super young and I handled it horribly. I need to have a conversation with her. Body issues are such a touchy subject. Wanted to do it differently. I’m sure I was better. I never hit my kids; mom would slap us. That was a win. My parents were just a generation that you got on with it. Be home for dinner. I love that my mom got to know our friends. Always willing to have friends at our house. She was cute that way. She would correct them if they didn’t use the right manners. In a fun way she would flip them shit. Peter and I have done a good job. We had a tiny house. 3-bedroom rambler in 1997. Then work changed, 1,300 square feet, peter worked from home. Definitely things I didn’t want to do, and things I appreciated.
Took up hiking with 2 girlfriends from book club. That’ been huge. I give my kids recommendations on where to go hiking. My kids are all super outdoorsy. All 3 of them have grown up to be total nature people. Fun role-reversal. Not mailbox peak but bridal veil. That’s been huge. Book group since Alex was in 2nd grade, still going. It’s been hard, I am definitely a talk on the phone person so this is lovely. I have a lot of friends, like my 6-pack friends from mercer island. But it’s all through group me or text. No one ever picks up the phone anymore. I miss that. That’s been a struggle. It’s been lonely at times. I’ve got family and friends and activities but it can be lonely if you don’t have a structure like an office job.
They do want to talk. When you get the opportunity. It’s easy to be lazy. When you put the effort in it works. Some people just assume the kids don’t want to hang out.
Father-son, mother-daughter. When we dropped Ellie off at college Peter cried all the way home and I was euphoric.
Important to forgive yourself. Didn’t realize wins until later when she’d come home from college and talk.
INTERVIEW #13
No challenges yet but anticipating feeling it. For 18-20 years my whole world has been wrapped about the kids. It’s been my identity. It crosses my mind. Who am I going to be once I’m there and not living my life for them? Also the absence of as much structure and schedule. Plus I’m retiring this year too. I got remarried in December and I’m going to be helping him manage properties. More flexible with traveling. Loosely related to the kids, being an empty nester. Lack of structure and timeline. How is that going to look? Trying to find a new identity. Who I am when it’s not based on them, their friends, and their identities.
Any support you look at? No. I feel like I’ve done my duty. One in college for two years, one is senior in high school. They’re both ready, it’s time. I’m not worried about it. I’ll be fine too. It’s been a process. Over the last few years, I did worry about it a little bit more. I’ve spent the last 18 preparing them to move to the next step. It’s a process, doesn’t happen overnight. You caught me on a good day.
Their half-brother got married out of state, the girls were gone 4-5 days, it was just us at home. I’m trying to focus on that. Trying to remember who I am. I was somebody before I had kids.
My mom: lean toward things I wanted to do differently. Communication and not feeling like I’m going to parent my kids with my head in the sand but recognize they are kids who are going to experiment with certain things whether I approve or not and pretend they’re not doing it. As far as drinking alcohol I’ve allowed them to do so in a controlled environment. Either I’m there or another caring protective adult. No driving. My older daughter is at WSU which is known for drinking and partying. The first year she tried it and decided not to. Her second year in a sorority, she always tells me, she drank a little bit, not in a car with anybody who is drinking, always within a group. I value that she’s comfortable and honest enough to tell me about it. Same thing as with sex—they’re both on birth control and they tell me what’s going on with their life. I can provide support if I know. I did not have that with my mom, it was not a very honest relationship.
Support? Just with my friends. Nice to have a community. Not professional support.
Good advice for other moms who aren’t as clear as you? Have a good friend group. Recognize that kids and every generation are different. Different experiences, struggles. It’s not about you, it’s about them. Recognize where they’re at and be there for them.
My kids have the same parents but are very different from each other. Really close and open relationship with older, while the younger is not as communicative. If I’m worried about anything, send me proof of life every week or few days. The older one I hear from 7-8 times a day, tells me every little thing, very open and communicative. The younger one is not. Am I still going to be relevant to her? I’m already having conversations with her about needing to communicate.
INTERVIEW #14
Challenges now? Yes. I definitely started feeling it before Kamryn graduated. Empty sad feeling. Curtis and I have to make sure we really like each other. Our focus has been on our kids since they were born. Makes me sad and sometimes depressed. I’m scared. I’ve got to find out who Kelli is now. Hasn’t stopped.
Done anything about it? I’ve talked to friends about it. Curtis and I have such a good open line of communication. Now when I get hormonal we talk it through. I talk with the kids about it too. I’m leaning on friends, Curtis, and my mom.
Mom through-line? Sadly, there’s probably more about what I don’t want to do for my kids than what I do. She did fun little things with us but it was more, the house had to be spotless all the time. Every crumb had to be cleaned constantly. A lot of pressure and nagging. We will talk about it now. She wishes she hadn’t spent so much time on that. Stress, having to be perfect all the time.
What did you do instead? Expectation of let’s keep our rooms decent. Our house is always clean, not perfect. I instilled in them at a younger age to pick up so even if not to my standards it’s ok. With my mom everything had to be her standard. I sit back and appreciate the things they do.
With my mom, we took little trips. Let’s go to a hotel even though we can’t afford it. Little adventures. She made memories when she could. With my kids, I remember those magical moments and I want my kids to remember those.
What are you worried about as Sydney approaches graduation? I have to embrace the empty nest with Curtis. I think that scares me. I’m most anxious about that. It’s not really about her leaving, she’s got it. She could live alone at 2. It’s more about what am I doing to do? What sports am I going to volunteer for? I’ve tried to start figuring out the new Kelli. Get more dogs?
What would support you? Group that has empty nester parents, or just wives. People with life interests. Group over 1:1? Yes. Hear other stories, connect with a community rather than someone who is just listening.
Would it be interesting to you to have support about dealing with mom issues? If super severe I absolutely would get therapy, but I’ve been able to deal with it ok.
My idea sounds amazing and exciting. There are stages with parents. My mom is aging now, I have to be more patient with her. I don’t care how good a parent was, there’s stuff to process.
Watching her age and be negative now. Kids say mom you can’t be like that when you get older. Didn’t used to be like that.
100% successful? I would love that. You always find the flaws. I’d love to analyze that and say that was rough, that was just a learning. I’m pretty confident there. I don’t know what I could have done differently. I was enthused, I’m ok. I have friends who struggle.
Does your all-in-ness have anything to do with how you were parented? Yes. Curtis too. I was making up for a lack of two parents. My parents divorced when I was 7. Curtis and I don’t miss a beat because that’s what we didn’t have. We go above and beyond. Not reinventing the trauma.
What am I going to be when I grow up?
One of the most rewarding things (don’t wan to start crying) is hearing my kids say how much they appreciate their childhoods. All this is making me realize, it’s good. We’re ok.
Anything that could make it better? Figuring it out now and not waiting. It’s not easy and yet I know it’s going to be ok.
INTERVIEW #15
If the mom takes too much interest in the kids then the kids can rebel later.
INTERVIEW #16
Daughter is 25-years old with Down’s Syndrome.
Dad was pedophile, grandfather as well. Paranoid about her being sexually abused. Found out about it just before wedding. Walked out in 2017. He walked out. I have full guardianship of her. He may not even know I have full guardianship.
I’m hypervigilant about who she is around. My plan is to create, when I die, with time and money, a nice-sized savings of $100,000 for her. I have $25,000 now. Father’s money is in a trust fund. Need to look at life insurance. May turn house into a group home with a live-in caregiver. Hypervigilant about sexual abuse given all that history on her dad’s side of the family.
One step at a time. Her brother will probably end up with her trust fund. And he’ll manage her life. I’d like her to live in a group home with females and a full-time caregiver. If I hadn’t had that experience I might not be as hypervigilant. I’m well aware of predators. She’s not very verbal. She might have been at one point, but she got stalked by a mistress. Horrific. She’s probably more dependent on me than she should be. I’m really grateful I could keep the ranch so I could work from home and care for her. I also have an 11-year old whose mom is in active addiction. We’re going to trial. That’s been a nice plus. She and Megs are pretty tight. Still do my life. My roommate just got her guardian ad litem. Co-guardianship with me. Last time I kicked my was-band out I had a nanny who moved in with me. Once again I did full-time caregiving with no support. He just wasn’t dependable.
All good. Good relationship with husband, do a lot with him and look forward to doing more after last kid is gone. Raised kids to be independent.
INTERVIEW #2
Lost the file with these notes. She’s in the middle of it all right now. Has angst about it. Talks to friends.
INTERVIEW #3
The child that’s going off to school now is the one who needs the most support. She’s completely unprepared for life. It’s catching me by surprise how unprepared she is. My biggest challenge is stepping away, leaving her be, letting her figure it out without becoming anxious about her and her path. to shut up and not say anything which is really hard bc she’s the youngest. completing sentences for her, talking to her like she’s a 2 year old. I can see it and it’s so hard for me not to do it. watching her not get something really big. I’m codependent b/c I’m having a hard time detaching from her getting to school.
#3. I’m excited for my kid. I’m all into my kids right now. my attention is all on my kids. Annamarie, going to visit her at her residency. watching Elizabeth perform at Boise. continuation of how I live my life. ability to go and hang out with my children. as I want to. as I need to. and, from a distance. not too in their space. hotel room hang out, check out where she’s living, take her out to eat, do an exercise class. I’ve put a lot of time into myself and being excited. I’m excited to have time to exercise, but I've done this for the last 10 years. I'm still excited about my exercise routine. I’m going to be a swiftie for a day—taylor swift workout. think I'll wear a tutu. daily excitements more than big things. uninterrupted time to write and not be distracted. lizzie would need me to pick her up from school. I’d be writing and then it was time to pick her up. I'd be rushing to get her. I’m excited about that. I'm excited to maybe brush up on a foreign language, there’s a possibility of us getting a place in Italy. I don’t know how excited I am about that but it’s something I would enjoy doing. As far as personal development goes, the word exciting is tripping me up. I do it every day. It’s a habit I do.
6. at this moment I would say I am less clear. this week, this day. Passion word trips me up. life purpose: I really feel 100%, forget about all the work in world part. The thing that has made me feel most centered about my life purpose has been the community of family. the family part. My purpose has been to be the person that makes the family work. I don’t know if it’s the supporter, left thumb life purpose, family/community. I have felt very I wouldn’t’ say passionate, but it’s a passionate knowing it’s what I’m here to do right now. not super excited, or get off on it, but this is what I'm here to do right now. If I have uncertainty, it’s always going to run in the background, I can’t take myself away from that and I don’t know that I want to if I give myself permission for this. I wanted out of it for so long, let me out of these family things. let me become a coach so I have something to escape from. I really am passionate about coaching; it does get me excited. but there’s like this family thing I’m currently aware that is writhing in the background all the time. I kept thinking this was all going to shift when lizzie goes to school in august. we’ll see what august has, until she gets there my focus and my energy and certainty about my life purpose is to set my children up for success. and I really believe in my heart of hearts that’s what my job is for anybody I come into contact with. That’s pretty much my purpose is to help set people up for success. It’s emotional, it’s the energy of success, not the outcomes. Even though I can help somebody make a lot of money, you have to be able to emotionally handle not having any in order to grow that much. have to be emotionally stable. Being emotionally stable is absolutely a part of this. currently I feel I have failed my daughter so big with Elizabeth because she is not emotionally stable in certain crowds and situations. and I know I’m not the person to help her with that. I've always known, I can see what they need help with, and I don’t have to be the person to help them. maybe I’ve been a little bit too something. not demanding that she rise above her emotional. I've been a little too soft with her. I want to smack her, but I’m not going to hurt her feelings. And most of this is because of how I feel, that she is not completely, she is not doing her part to set herself up for success. That's part of it. I’m able to emotionally deal with the fact that she’s not ready. and I'm going to have to trust that she’s going to be fine and pray that she will be safe. Emotionally stable is success.
What happens because of this phone call?
I feel good. A little bit. seeing myself in your niche. thinking about It today. brought some space to explore—what do I really want to do? even though I feel I’ve had an understanding of what I’ll do work-wise, I've thought about it but haven’t really pinned it down. What do I actually really want to commit to doing? Do I really WANT to learn a foreign language? is that true?
INTERVIEW #4
Most friends are empty nesters
Could be moms at any stage. 22, 19, 17, 13, 12, 8
Kindergarten and the start of high school are parenting milestones. They’re still in my nest, now they’re not. parenting business. Two pivotal moments. get triggered the same way as a mother. different emotions. fathers also experience some emotions but it’s a major transition. Are they going to be ok? are they going to be safe? are they going to thrive? high school defines them.
What about me? when I had the last at 45. dear Jesus. 5th was starting kindergarten. finally get a breather. finally get to do me. The whole reason I started my own biz was I can’t do this. I can’t parent and....
latchkey kid, divorced parents, no fairytale childhood. I'm going to be home and present and take them to school. That was my goal. I left my corporate job to do that, to raise my kids. when #5 was in kindergarten—OK! I can focus on me. self-care days. get yourself back for those couple hours. You have time for you after all these years. and then I got pregnant. went down the rabbit hole. took me out. Was not happy. I love her she’s an angel, biggest source of joy in the entire family but those first couple of years I was not happy. This was supposed to be my time. I got to get back to me as a mother. When do I get back to me? And the things I want to do? to accomplish the things I want to accomplish? It hit me 2 years in. need my downtime. Girlfriends--let's go to lady gaga? no, it’s going to be on my terms. I need my alone time, down time at night. It’s too much for everyone else. I don’t even know who I am anymore. Everybody needs a piece of you. had to recalibrate. all about doing things that bring me joy. very short bandwidth.
Support: isolating. Find my way. Not a lot of support. figuring out how to get what I needed by diving into those things. Courses, connecting with other experts, reading books, journaling, mindset work, selfcare, etc. plus I was an older mom, so I was an anomaly. it would have been nice to know about resources but have to search for it.
High school is a triggering point because it’s a time ticker. omg all of a sudden, I'm on a timeline. What am I doing to do with myself? what am I going to do? how do you get your mind off that pathway? because as mothers we feel that’s selfish to do that.
You are worthy of thinking of yourself. it’s ok you have permission.
In motherhood and parenting space with her coaching work. “you only have until they’re 18!” finality once they turn 18. Reality is it never ends. even nieces and nephews. see how present you still are as they are adults. Who am I now? if I'm defined by raising children, now who am I/ even if still married. panic.
Permission is the key word. change from direct, daily motherhood. all these things that are bottled up and not talked about. As soon as I bring it up it’s all going to come out. They’re not really talking about it. in a clique or isolated unless have friends in the same situation.
Motherhood niche. women who are mothers. underlying emotions of anxiety and stress. need to know how to work through fear of unknown? Am I really being selfish? I think it will translate over to the new group. I’m still doing the same thing. I know the ropes because I’ve experienced it.
Family? Neighbors? friends? Who do I know that I can chat with?
Watch for specific language to use for this. watch for messaging to shift.
INTERVIEW #5
You’re never done being a mom. They circle back over and over again. Some parents check out after graduation and don’t care to have a relationship. That’s not me. I remember when Lindsey started high school, I made a conscious decision, and we talked about it as a family at that point, to step back and give her more freedom. I was still there if she needed me but I wasn’t volunteering in the classroom or anything like that.
INTERVIEW #6
Travelling. Married young, at 23, kid at 24. Now it’s time for me. Nevery had that time for myself when I was younger. I’ve never been a helicopter mom. I was involved, at all their things, but this is their lves. Iw as really good at having my own life separate from myt kids. Going on girls trips, my husband and I have always dated.
My model of past, present, future. Sacred cycles. Mother maiden queen crone. Mother wounds. Take them and tweak them toward what I’m doing. My mom holds a grudge, is super judgy, I was determined not to do that. And there are amazing parts of her I love. Mourning and celebrating, it’s that season. Memorializing. I need to do something for me to memorialize that. Last kid out of the house. I’ve never slowed down enough to do that. Grieve it. Celebrate it. We’re more hard on ourselves as moms.
This is so needed. So much healing needs to happen. Why did you not take care of your marriage or yourself? Why did you put everything into your kids? What were you trying to fulfill?
Pushing boundaries, testing new methodologies, breaking th mold has a lot of takes a lto of energy. To make conscious change is the hope fo the world.
Got married for a reason,. Look at shadows.. what are they hiding? Maybe they’re the good mom because they’re suppressing the devilish mom.
INTERVIEW #7
When in high school noticed pretty quickly they feel more grown up. All different from each other. Well prepared for oldest to leave, she didn’t need much, very independent. Second one I was much closer to her, more stay at home, went to Portland for college, more verbal about her attachment to us as a family, always wanting reassurance and attachment. All very driven, overachievers, perfectionists. I knew I was going to miss her going she was a sound board for me as well, more like a friend or a sister of hers. I don’t have a sister. Still close. Jenna the oldest didn’t have such a need for that. She was in upstate New York much further away. Both became independent the minute they left home. Mark was keen they didn’t come home and boomerang. Lucy was different, much more social. Going out a lot with friends. Weird hours. Youngest gets a longer leash, especially once they learn to drive. Very chatty, extremely. She wants to speak everything that comes into her mind as it comes. I missed her going because she was a noise presence, always something going on when she was here. I knew I would miss that when she went away. East coast pretty far. Unlike Jenna she would always call right away if she needed help. We must have done a good job with them. They all went off and were independent. Mark always treated them with respect. we trust you until you do something that breaks that trust.
Being a rebel myself as a teenager I was always waiting for something to happen. They were just so well behaved. It’s different in England with public transport.
Biggest frustration or challenge? Maybe I didn’t know what was going on! Kelly told me all that was going on, Jenna didn’t. I didn’t have that kind of relationship with my mom so I was glad I had that with at least Kelly and Lucy, Jenna to some extent. Worked at CTE, still do. Always thought I would get a job after they left. Tried for a couple and didn’t it’s fine I’ll just play tennis I’m over it now but at 45-50 with perimenopause everything feels a little bleak. All those hormonal changes. Don’t handle things the same.
Opposites with my mom. They are open and honest with me. I was lying about where I was going. My parents then didn’t’ think they needed to emotionally tell kids what was going on with their lives. Everything was behind closed doors.
Culturally. My mom was a teacher, they saw us as kids, always and still to this day. I see my kids as adults. I was on a career path until I left to come over here. They put a lot into status. My brother didn’t like being around other people that much. Work didn’t go well for him. Still lots of things, never really enjoyed it. They were disappointed in him. Having parents who are academics, a degree doesn’t solve all your problems
So when I was an empty nester nothing changed. I kept in touch, visited them, skyped with them. Still worked at CTE, still played tennis, didn’t have to get up super early in the morning to get them to high school. Initially I worried, I didn’t really know, it was a small worry. These days kids check in via text. You can always reach them.
Now as a mom: they give a lot back, they come home, got it right, pretty fulfilled. That’s my main job. In the back of my mind, I thought I’d get a main job, a career. Then chose not to work when they were babies because I didn’t need to.
What would I do differently? I regret going from my degree into a post-grad secretarial thing. It pigeonholed me into admin world. If I’d been more risk-tolerant I would have taken any job and kept looking around, more career-like. Did a 4-year degree in German and French. Not a manager. I came over here because mark came over here.
INTERVIEW #8
Someone said to me about feelings of rejection as a mom. Even though we might not be thinking about the empty nest because of the rejection that teenagers throw at us sometimes. You’re just old, you can’t relate. Independence but also shut us out which leads to the feeling of empty nest.
Biggest challenges include the amount of social media that teens can access. It gives kids unreal expectations from watching a Disney show and thinking that’s what my bedroom should look like from a 8-9 year old. Creates an expectation. Then you’re too old, you don’t know what it’s like to be a teen today. You’re too strict, your rules aren’t reasonable. Perceptions through social media lead them to believe it’s a reality that isn’t true. Many ways our children have been harmed.
I’m afraid for my children because of it. Access pornography, drugs, unreal expectations of life.
Resources around that fear? Where I am heading is good. What can we do to create a course or support system for parents? Kids are sharing info all the time, parents aren’t. covid took a lot away from that too. No meetings, no group interactions.
Isolation—I’ve created a lot of isolation in my life. Covid created a lot of isolation also.
Example: solutions: you just need to change your modem! Ideal business: bring me all your devices and I’ll set them up for you for privacy. We did that and then they can get Instagram on tv. What?? There’s no clearing house or support for parents to get this information unless you have the time to be a sleuth 8 hours a day like they do. Worksheet, point by point, this is what to do if you’re having a problem with kids on social media.
Challenges about empty nest time? I’ve been parenting for so long I don’t fit the mold. I love rosa being exactly where she’s at. I don’t believe I’ll have a problem because I’m already juggling how to have time with grandchildren. Or have the other kids with us. I don’t think I’m going to have those EN feelings that some people have. Cuz I want something else right now, except for rosa. Never felt like I can’t wait
What would you like your life to look like once rosa has moved out? I don’t think it will look much different than now. I would like to be physically active. I still want an RV. Whether I’ll be able to drive it or not then! I’d like my life to be family focused. That my children will have been fully launched with a base for success. I can have that now for my older kids. But what about you?? Hiking regularly. In a hiking group. A lot of travel. In my mind that’s visiting children but not exclusive to that at all. Very important. Some kind of a craft or creative outlet—sewing, pottery, I did a little bit of that in high school. Community I volunteer in, useful and a part of. Even if live 6 months in Arizona and 6 in Olympia, community connected. What does volunteering bring? Purpose, part of community, giving back which is really important to me. Watching my parents age, my mom did a lot of volunteering earlier and didn’t keep it up. It keeps our minds active and we don’t age as much.
What role has your identity as a mother played in your life? My mother played a very large role. Father worked a lot, gone 24 hours + at a time. She did a lot of parenting with us. She wasn’t super structured thus I don’t have a lot of structure. My structure was more created by my job and calendar, not how I was raised. I was jealous. My friend’s mother had a grocery list, and her mother went shopping every Thursday. Another did chores every Saturday morning. But my mother was very independent. I was amazed, she would load us into the car and do errands. She had all of us in the car and parallel parked, I have no idea how she did that every day. She suffered through some addictions, terribly with a gambling addiction which led to a lot of abandonment as a kid but she was at every sporting event, took stats, etc. If she was gone we knew where she was. We would call and they would lie, she told them to lie. Tree burning down in field! As I’ve gotten older, in the past year or two I’ve had a lot of awakenings about that. If mom could do It, why can’t I check out? We still love her and we are all devoted to her. We got through it, it’s just a period of time. I had a lot of aggression, that’s not the right word, negative feelings. I can see myself doing some of that same behavior. If it was okay for my mom, and we all got through it…. Same reasons I’ve been unhappy in my life. Her coping mechanisms weren’t always real good.
Haven’t been drinking, some AA meetings. Doing well.
INTERVIEW #9
Mason went to Whitworth. I had a great childhood. My parents were always at my sports. I don’t remember anything bad about my childhood. We supported our kids, we were at all their events. Some parents don’t do any of that.
When Carson talked about going to California for college that was hard. It wasn’t a drive. Scary. He was in football. We’d try to go down as much as we could. I could only go 2-3 months without seeing my kids. Once I had it in my mind, at least I get a fun place to visit. Then you see how they’re excited and you support them.
Mason came to Whitworth and I thought I could jump in a car. PLU and UPS were too close to home, they wanted to go out. I knew they were ready. It’s still hard when there is nobody home. I started wrapping myself around that, this is great, I love this! I don’t have all this responsibility anymore. All this freedom. They were happy. I love this. I would always love to go see them or them come home. And now we live over here. Just a couple weeks ago he said he was going to move to Phoenix. Dominic his friend lives there and needs a roommate. He wanted to get out of Washington. I wasn’t crazy about the idea. He was flying down to Phoenix for the interview. Didn’t get the job. He was crushed but got the Spokane job offer. So, living with us for at least a year. I have to get used to him living with us again. I never thought my kids would come back. Now I have more responsibility again but he comes and goes as he pleases. It’s kind of a roller coaster. Happy for them, sad when they leave, happy to see them.
Proud of? Always there for my kids. A lot of parents aren’t. when mason had one football game and we couldn’t go because of the snow, he was devastated we couldn’t’ be there. He sent us a text—ii know you’ve been to every game. Sweetest text he sent us. It’s weird to not have you there.
Any friends you noticed do it differently? Maybe one of Mason’s friends who lived with us for a while. One of Carson’s friends said you’re on your own once you turn 18. These kids—he lived with us for a couple months. Dad kicked him out of the house at 18. He was going to SSCC, he was working. What else can you ask a graduating senior to do? I felt really bad for him.
Carson—we still pay for gas and phone. He pays for groceries and rent. Things are expensive. We paid Mason’s rent in college. Some of his roommates had to pay for their own rent and food. One of his roommates wouldn’t eat, he said he couldn’t have dinner, no money, so Mason gave him some chicken. He saw what other kids were going through, realized how privileged he is. I’m really lucky my parents can back me up.
Your own mother? My mom’s parents, grandpa was a flight attendant. Mom stayed home with 4 kids. Grandpa had affairs, grandma drank wine with friends, so my mom raised her littlest brother. I haven’t thought about it.
I wanted to be involved in everything. With Mason coming home I have to remind myself to back off. I don’t need to have dinner ready for him every night. He’s been on his own for 4 years, I don’t want to bother him. Yesterday he asked me to do his laundry. I was home all day. I don’t need to go down in his room to get his laundry. I give him his space coming back home and respect that.
Best part of them being gone? House stays clean, food is there when you buy it. House is going to stay exactly how I left it. When he came home, I want dishes done, things picked up. I don’t want to come home to a messy house. Be respectful. This is not your frat house. 9 guys and filthy dirty. He’s recruiting nurses for in-home health care, he’ll be gone 11 hours a day. He doesn’t have to worry about grocery shopping or making your meals. All you have to worry about is work and working out. Don’t have to do all the household chores as if you had your own place.
Carson’s girlfriend just graduated, they live in Renton. He’s been out twice to visit. He texted yesterday and said hey I want to come over. We bought this house on Long Lake on Spokane River so the kids would visit. He loves it over here and doesn’t want to leave. Brian is still working online commutes to olympia a couple times a month. Life was getting boring in Olympia. Wanted something new. It was a crazy thing we did, it’s been the best decision ever. There’s no rain here, it’s like a mist. Rain here is a joke. I’m working at a school, here, we had indoor recess because it was sprinkling. Work 10-2:30 with 4-5 graders in the resource room, with IEP’s. Carson was sad we sold the cabin. We are on a lake why would we ever go back to Shelton?
INTERVIEW #10
It seems very final. End of an era. Transition form everyday hands on mothering to more of a guidance and hoping that they will listen. Just suggesting rather than you need to do this.
This is the last start of volleyball season. Last summer league. The last of all of these things. A little bit of relief. Am I going to miss this? Everyday hands on parenting has been a huge part of my everyday life. Ok what am I going to fill this with? Am I going to be ok with this outside looking in?
Weirdest dreams that I keep having more kids. No thank you but also wow. Trying to cherish all those moments of being younger.
What will be the most different for you? Having them leave the house. I still have constant communication with them but they’re not a presence here. The quiet, the solitude, that is sometimes uncomfortable. They bring energy and vibrancy to life.
Same/different? My parents were very good at letting me make my choices. Being supportive but not meddling for lack of a better word. So when I see situations where prior I would have given a lot of guidance I’m more like XXXXX
Different? There’s nothing that really stuck out necessarily. Other than when my kids tells me something upsetting or shocking, I try not to have a reaction right then and there because I want them to say things to me. I wasn’t comfortable sharing. (with my parents).
How prepared are you? Not at all. Explore what my next steps will be, what do you think that’s going to be like for you? I’ll focus more on education opportunities and service.
Support? Women’s group going through same things, same experiences would be nice. My friends are all in different stages. Sometimes it’s hard for them to understand or comprehend. Most are behind me. Not looking ahead. In those moments it feels like it’ll be so nice.
Am I too early? Good question! I’ve had 4 daughters. First one was really hard, don’t know what to expect. But then she left, I’m caught up with the other ones. Not too early. Walk them through the first one and what that’s like, then eventually transitioning into the complete empty nester. If I knew something like that was available, I might have reached out. Because it’s one of those things that you kind of endure in silence.
How would you like this transition to feel/be? Sentimental feelings, a lot of them. A sliver of relief to not be so crazy busy all the time. Also that longing to be that age when they were smaller, closer. But also kind of trepidation about the future. More now than when younger? Probably because it’s more of a reality now. Hard to imagine with all the diapers and craziness.
What would it take to reach out to a coach 1:1? It would be something I was aware of. Also a description of what it is. I’m very hesitant with things where I feel I’m going in whining, everybody is whining. So more empowering and positive.
Rooted in how we were parented? Choices we see our children making and we see if I’d done this, then… the what if’s. Are they making this choice because I did this or I did not do this?
INTERVIEW #11
How much bandwidth is this taking up for you now? Macy is a junior next year, Kaylin a senior. Doesn’t preoccupy more than it used to.
What’s going to be hard about that? I can already feel the emotional part of that, not knowing, that constant check in to see them and know they’re fine. She’s never left for very long. We’ve hopefully done a decent job. Not seeing her often anymore.
Anything hard now? I don’t think so. Starting to think about colleges and where they want to go. They feel this immense pressure since high school to get all A’s, to participate, to set a high standard. Perfection is not what you’re going for. Pressure is incredible for kids now.
Differently/same? My mom in particular, she was always supportive no matter what. I could call her and she would help me. I hope I carried that through with my daughters. Also my mom was a very practical person as well, there’s nothing we can’t figure out, this too shall pass. She was always a very calming person, didn’t get too riled up about anything. That was a comfort. I tell both my girls the same thing. When they leave and go to college, how much will they reach out to me vs. being independent? Mom led by example.
Different: she’s more of a (hospital job) she saw more of the bad. If there’s a worst case scenario let’s prepare for that, I try to be more positive. As my mom has aged it’s becoming more prevalent in her thinking. She saw a lot of crisis and trauma, results of drinking and driving, etc. what about something good might happen?
100% successful? Anything change? I’m not sure how to answer that. I probably invest too much in my kids. I should let them fail more vs. help them too much. Forget something at home, I’ll bring it to school for them. Hope I don’t make them too dependent. I worry sometimes I’m not strict enough with them. I’m very firm with my expectations as in being respectful but if they ask me something I usually tell them yes. I feel they’ve earned it.
How would you like to see yourself move through these next two years? It’s nice to think of doing things I want to do again. I’d love to golf again. Spend more time doing something I enjoy, that’s outdoors. Travel more. Not confined to a certain schedule. Huge transition next couple of years. Support them, visit them, and also invest more time in myself. As a mom we rarely put our needs first. Get back to that a bit more.
Biggest issue once Macy leaves home? Figuring out for Sean and I, for last 18 years we’ve focused everything on our kids, to change that thinking back to the two of us. Figuring out what we enjoy without our kids. It will be interesting to have this different relationship and how we live together the two of us. When they come back, then focus on them again! Different relationships on and off over next few years.
Heard it’s really hard at first but it’s great now.
What kinds of things do you imagine would be supportive of you? Good friend group, all going through this the same time. As a group would be supportive of me. Like golf once a week in the summer, with other couples. Book club with friends, get together and be more focused, not just hanging out and having drinks or dinner but more constructive. Organized things, makes me more accountable to do it. Sign up and pay for something per week then I’ll do it. Something to look forward to.
Have you ever worked with a coach before? No
Imagine it? Possibly. My coworkers are all mental health counselors.
What would be attractive for coaching? If I wasn’t processing. Getting stuck, couldn’t move past, or do things for myself.
GRADE: B. A is pretty outstanding. I do a good job overall, could always improve somewhere.
Anything else? My whole life has been focused on these kids. I know like you said it doesn’t end when they go to college. I can’t imagine what I did when I didn’t have them. Interesting and strange.
Women who do not work outside the home—that would be interesting. If I hadn’t gone back to work and stayed home with the kids. I have a couple of friends who have never worked. Research for stay at homes and how that’s different.
INTERVIEW #12
Each kid is different. They’ve all stayed local, eastern Washington for college, all live around here now. Really fortunate. Ellies husband’s family sold their house when he graduated from college. Sold the house, when we have Christmas one is on a blow up mattress in the office. Really? That’s traumatic for the kids.
What was hard for you? I love my daughter, tumultuous relationship over the years, I heard later she would hear her friends over the phone talking to their moms. I left it too much in her court to call me. She may have felt a little abandoned. You knew my parents, it was: OK, see ya! I had a really hard quarter at UW and had to drop out for the quarter, called my mom, and she said ok but you can sill live in the sorority right? It’ll be fine, don’t worry about it. That was my background. Not exactly the helicopter parent. It was hard figuring out how to make them feel included but still have your own life. The boys were still at home when Ellie left, etc. focused more on younger ones which they could’ve done without. Alex—oh! What are you doing? You get close to the younger ones. It was all lip service. Less contentious. Hardest part is I was a stay-at-home mom, did PTA, part time stuff when they were little. Never really worked because Peter travelled all the time. I was on the hook for 3 kids. I wish I’d kept up on something. Did do part time for years, not mentally stimulating. So what do I want to do, who am I? It was a trickle, Ellie graduated from high school in 2012, dad died in 2012. She struggled with depression in high school, pretty tumultuous senior year. I was the one taking him to his appointments, driving mom, lots of caregiving. He died Ellie’s senior year, mom had to sell the house, macular degeneration so couldn’t live by herself. Transitioned into being main caregiver for mom. Got her into Merrill gardens. She couldn’t drive. I’d see her, spend time with her, bring her back to my place, for 3 years. Remodeled our house in 2013 when Ellie took a break from school, and came back home. Mom died in 2015 and by that time Ellie was a sophomore, John was a freshman at Whitman, just Alex me and my mom. Then mom died and Alex had junior and senior year then graduated and went to UW. By that time Peter’s mom Jan was failing. We needed to get her out of the house and into Merrill Gardens. And then my sister has Parkinson’s and cancer so transitioned into caregiving for Karen and Jan. Then covid in the middle of that, and Alex moved home for a semester. I’ve never really had an empty nest. John travelled during the summers. Ellie hasn’t been at home either. A trickle. Went from managing teenagers to managing parents. Dealing with puberty for 11 years straight! Puberty to dementia. Peter and I were both on the same page. I always wanted to be a stay at home mom, never had any big career goals, WTA was my big thing. Nothing that was my bread and butter or reason for getting up in the morning. Maybe I should have had a thing. Caregiver now. Really good relationships with my kids. Ellie and Ian just bought a house at Green Lake, John is at Wallingford, Alex was going to move to Port Townsend but that fell through, lease with a girlfriend, so they’re going to be moving in together locally.
Wish I knew more day-to-day what was going on. Hard figuring out that line. How involved should I be? I’m less involved than I’d like to be but know. Ellie has always been a struggle, she’s super busy. Build it up in my head and no she’s just super busy. In absence of info, I go down rabbit hole.
Body shaming. Mom. My mom never wanted us to get a big head. Never just a compliment. I don’t know what that was for my mom. Peter’s mom was the opposite. Isn’t it too bad the rest of the world doesn’t have red hair? Peter said “My mom made us feel we were the luckiest kids on the earth.” They had baggage but self-confidence wasn’t’ one of them. But the porter kids struggled to have any semblance of self-esteem. I thought I’d do a way better job, then I have a girl who starts developing at age 12. Me too movement, it’s really hard when she’s super young and I handled it horribly. I need to have a conversation with her. Body issues are such a touchy subject. Wanted to do it differently. I’m sure I was better. I never hit my kids; mom would slap us. That was a win. My parents were just a generation that you got on with it. Be home for dinner. I love that my mom got to know our friends. Always willing to have friends at our house. She was cute that way. She would correct them if they didn’t use the right manners. In a fun way she would flip them shit. Peter and I have done a good job. We had a tiny house. 3-bedroom rambler in 1997. Then work changed, 1,300 square feet, peter worked from home. Definitely things I didn’t want to do, and things I appreciated.
Took up hiking with 2 girlfriends from book club. That’ been huge. I give my kids recommendations on where to go hiking. My kids are all super outdoorsy. All 3 of them have grown up to be total nature people. Fun role-reversal. Not mailbox peak but bridal veil. That’s been huge. Book group since Alex was in 2nd grade, still going. It’s been hard, I am definitely a talk on the phone person so this is lovely. I have a lot of friends, like my 6-pack friends from mercer island. But it’s all through group me or text. No one ever picks up the phone anymore. I miss that. That’s been a struggle. It’s been lonely at times. I’ve got family and friends and activities but it can be lonely if you don’t have a structure like an office job.
They do want to talk. When you get the opportunity. It’s easy to be lazy. When you put the effort in it works. Some people just assume the kids don’t want to hang out.
Father-son, mother-daughter. When we dropped Ellie off at college Peter cried all the way home and I was euphoric.
Important to forgive yourself. Didn’t realize wins until later when she’d come home from college and talk.
INTERVIEW #13
No challenges yet but anticipating feeling it. For 18-20 years my whole world has been wrapped about the kids. It’s been my identity. It crosses my mind. Who am I going to be once I’m there and not living my life for them? Also the absence of as much structure and schedule. Plus I’m retiring this year too. I got remarried in December and I’m going to be helping him manage properties. More flexible with traveling. Loosely related to the kids, being an empty nester. Lack of structure and timeline. How is that going to look? Trying to find a new identity. Who I am when it’s not based on them, their friends, and their identities.
Any support you look at? No. I feel like I’ve done my duty. One in college for two years, one is senior in high school. They’re both ready, it’s time. I’m not worried about it. I’ll be fine too. It’s been a process. Over the last few years, I did worry about it a little bit more. I’ve spent the last 18 preparing them to move to the next step. It’s a process, doesn’t happen overnight. You caught me on a good day.
Their half-brother got married out of state, the girls were gone 4-5 days, it was just us at home. I’m trying to focus on that. Trying to remember who I am. I was somebody before I had kids.
My mom: lean toward things I wanted to do differently. Communication and not feeling like I’m going to parent my kids with my head in the sand but recognize they are kids who are going to experiment with certain things whether I approve or not and pretend they’re not doing it. As far as drinking alcohol I’ve allowed them to do so in a controlled environment. Either I’m there or another caring protective adult. No driving. My older daughter is at WSU which is known for drinking and partying. The first year she tried it and decided not to. Her second year in a sorority, she always tells me, she drank a little bit, not in a car with anybody who is drinking, always within a group. I value that she’s comfortable and honest enough to tell me about it. Same thing as with sex—they’re both on birth control and they tell me what’s going on with their life. I can provide support if I know. I did not have that with my mom, it was not a very honest relationship.
Support? Just with my friends. Nice to have a community. Not professional support.
Good advice for other moms who aren’t as clear as you? Have a good friend group. Recognize that kids and every generation are different. Different experiences, struggles. It’s not about you, it’s about them. Recognize where they’re at and be there for them.
My kids have the same parents but are very different from each other. Really close and open relationship with older, while the younger is not as communicative. If I’m worried about anything, send me proof of life every week or few days. The older one I hear from 7-8 times a day, tells me every little thing, very open and communicative. The younger one is not. Am I still going to be relevant to her? I’m already having conversations with her about needing to communicate.
INTERVIEW #14
Challenges now? Yes. I definitely started feeling it before Kamryn graduated. Empty sad feeling. Curtis and I have to make sure we really like each other. Our focus has been on our kids since they were born. Makes me sad and sometimes depressed. I’m scared. I’ve got to find out who Kelli is now. Hasn’t stopped.
Done anything about it? I’ve talked to friends about it. Curtis and I have such a good open line of communication. Now when I get hormonal we talk it through. I talk with the kids about it too. I’m leaning on friends, Curtis, and my mom.
Mom through-line? Sadly, there’s probably more about what I don’t want to do for my kids than what I do. She did fun little things with us but it was more, the house had to be spotless all the time. Every crumb had to be cleaned constantly. A lot of pressure and nagging. We will talk about it now. She wishes she hadn’t spent so much time on that. Stress, having to be perfect all the time.
What did you do instead? Expectation of let’s keep our rooms decent. Our house is always clean, not perfect. I instilled in them at a younger age to pick up so even if not to my standards it’s ok. With my mom everything had to be her standard. I sit back and appreciate the things they do.
With my mom, we took little trips. Let’s go to a hotel even though we can’t afford it. Little adventures. She made memories when she could. With my kids, I remember those magical moments and I want my kids to remember those.
What are you worried about as Sydney approaches graduation? I have to embrace the empty nest with Curtis. I think that scares me. I’m most anxious about that. It’s not really about her leaving, she’s got it. She could live alone at 2. It’s more about what am I doing to do? What sports am I going to volunteer for? I’ve tried to start figuring out the new Kelli. Get more dogs?
What would support you? Group that has empty nester parents, or just wives. People with life interests. Group over 1:1? Yes. Hear other stories, connect with a community rather than someone who is just listening.
Would it be interesting to you to have support about dealing with mom issues? If super severe I absolutely would get therapy, but I’ve been able to deal with it ok.
My idea sounds amazing and exciting. There are stages with parents. My mom is aging now, I have to be more patient with her. I don’t care how good a parent was, there’s stuff to process.
Watching her age and be negative now. Kids say mom you can’t be like that when you get older. Didn’t used to be like that.
100% successful? I would love that. You always find the flaws. I’d love to analyze that and say that was rough, that was just a learning. I’m pretty confident there. I don’t know what I could have done differently. I was enthused, I’m ok. I have friends who struggle.
Does your all-in-ness have anything to do with how you were parented? Yes. Curtis too. I was making up for a lack of two parents. My parents divorced when I was 7. Curtis and I don’t miss a beat because that’s what we didn’t have. We go above and beyond. Not reinventing the trauma.
What am I going to be when I grow up?
One of the most rewarding things (don’t wan to start crying) is hearing my kids say how much they appreciate their childhoods. All this is making me realize, it’s good. We’re ok.
Anything that could make it better? Figuring it out now and not waiting. It’s not easy and yet I know it’s going to be ok.
INTERVIEW #15
If the mom takes too much interest in the kids then the kids can rebel later.
INTERVIEW #16
Daughter is 25-years old with Down’s Syndrome.
Dad was pedophile, grandfather as well. Paranoid about her being sexually abused. Found out about it just before wedding. Walked out in 2017. He walked out. I have full guardianship of her. He may not even know I have full guardianship.
I’m hypervigilant about who she is around. My plan is to create, when I die, with time and money, a nice-sized savings of $100,000 for her. I have $25,000 now. Father’s money is in a trust fund. Need to look at life insurance. May turn house into a group home with a live-in caregiver. Hypervigilant about sexual abuse given all that history on her dad’s side of the family.
One step at a time. Her brother will probably end up with her trust fund. And he’ll manage her life. I’d like her to live in a group home with females and a full-time caregiver. If I hadn’t had that experience I might not be as hypervigilant. I’m well aware of predators. She’s not very verbal. She might have been at one point, but she got stalked by a mistress. Horrific. She’s probably more dependent on me than she should be. I’m really grateful I could keep the ranch so I could work from home and care for her. I also have an 11-year old whose mom is in active addiction. We’re going to trial. That’s been a nice plus. She and Megs are pretty tight. Still do my life. My roommate just got her guardian ad litem. Co-guardianship with me. Last time I kicked my was-band out I had a nanny who moved in with me. Once again I did full-time caregiving with no support. He just wasn’t dependable.
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